Podcast Leaders into the Wild with dr. Margot Brouwer, astrofysicus and filosoof

“I Had a Cup of Tea with God.”

With that remarkable statement, this episode of Leaders into the Wild begins. Years ago, a participant on a wilderness trail spoke these words during the closing council. A simple sentence that has stayed with Boy van Droffelaar ever since. What do we actually experience when we fully immerse ourselves in nature? And what did Spinoza mean when he wrote Deus sive Natura – God, or Nature?

In this episode, father and son Boy and Niek van Droffelaar sit down with Dr. Margot Brouwer—astrophysicist, science journalist, and author of the book We Are Stardust (Sterrenstof zijn wij). Margot studied Physics and Astronomy at the University of Amsterdam and earned her PhD at Leiden University, where she researched dark matter. Drawing on her background in astrophysics and her fascination with Spinoza’s philosophy, the conversation takes us on a journey through some of life’s biggest questions.

What does it truly mean that we are literally made of stardust? Is nature merely the backdrop to our lives, or is Nature—as Spinoza argued—one with God? According to Spinoza, God is not a being separate from the universe but is identical with the infinite reality itself.

Margot shares candidly how, even as a child, she was confronted by profound existential questions. Thoughts about death filled her with fear and inspired her to search for answers.

That search began among books about stars and planets in the library and eventually led her to study astronomy. During her doctoral research, however, she discovered that while physics provides many answers to how the universe works, it offers very few answers to why we are here.

It was during that period that she encountered the philosophy of Spinoza.

“The more I studied the universe, the more I began to understand Spinoza’s philosophy.”

The result is a profound and inspiring conversation about wonder, intuition, consciousness, death, the universe, and our place within the greater whole. It also explores the remarkable experience that spending extended time in nature awakens something within us that is so easily drowned out by the pace of everyday life.

What makes this episode so special is the meeting point between modern cosmology, philosophy, and deeply personal experiences in nature. It is a conversation that doesn’t offer simple answers but instead invites us to look at ourselves, nature, and the universe with fresh eyes.

You can listen to this inspiring conversation here: